ZetaTalk: sci.astro debates: Re: Hale-Bopp THEN and NOW

Re: Hale-Bopp THEN and NOW

Article: <5eno0f$ku6@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
From: saquo@ix.netcom.com(Nancy )
Subject: Re: Hale-Bopp THEN and NOW
Date: 22 Feb 1997 21:21:19 GMT

This debate has been cross-posted to sci.astro.amateur, sci.astro.planetarium, sci.space.news, and alt.paranormal as CNN did not choose to list sci.astro among the Usenet sites where information on Hale-Bopp could be located. Check

http://www.zetatalk.com/theword/tword900.htm

for the sci.astro debate thread history.

In article <5elddl$11fc@news.ccit.arizona.edu> Jim Scotti writes:
>> (Begin ZetaTalk[TM])
>> You took the orbit published by Brian Marsden, and ran it
>> backwards in time. Based on what?...
>
> Based on the laws of physics and the application of some
> simple mathematics.
> jscotti@LPL.Arizona.EDU (Jim Scotti)
>
>> Unless a comet remains in your Solar System, as does Halley
>> where it scarcely exits before returning, you have NO IDEA
>> what it is doing out there, and in fact have no idea just which
>> of the comets making unscheduled appearances are first time
>> visitors or returnees!
>> (End ZetaTalk[TM])

And does this include the illogic of having a comet WAY out in space round a curve to form the mirror part of an ellipse even when it has NO gravitational object there to cause it to make a side-ways shift? This was a debate that raged for 2 months on sci.astro over the 1995 holiday season, and no astronomer was able to explain why a comet body would do that, yet it stands as a precept of your logic!

(Begin ZetaTalk[TM])
ZetaTalk: Contradictions

The long elliptical orbit stands in contradiction to human trajectory theories, which have a trajectory curve downward mirroring the trajectory curve upward. Repeating comets are going in an essentially straight line away from the Sun, a line parallel and very close to the one that would be drawn from the very center of the Sun. Human theories of such trajectories on Earth state that an object going in an essentially straight upward path returns from the same place, plunging straight downward with a curvature mirroring its upward path. In contradiction to this explanation, complacent humans find nothing strange when comets reenter the Solar System at a great distance from where they left. The explanations given by humans for this contradiction in their logic is the Magical Ellipse explanation. The ellipse needs no explanation, it just is. When asked to describe the forces that control an elliptical path, humans proffer a technicaldescription of an ellipse. They describe it, not explain it.

The long elliptical orbit stands in contradiction to human gravitational theories, which has the gravitational tug rapidly diminishing with distance. Where the temporary orbit around the Sun has an explanation in the steady gravity tug from the Sun, this same explanation is given for the curve they claim is instituted by the repeating comet at a great distance. Essentially, humans refuse to even address this contradiction, falling again into the Magical Ellipse explanation. Their response, like the cat which falls to licking itself when it is discombobulated, is to proffer greater and greater detail on the math they use to draw or describe an ellipse.

Comets, whether termed repeating or non-repeating by humans, assume, however temporarily, an orbit around the Sun. In this they are going the fastest when going into this curve, and are going slower when they leave off from the Sun.

This behavior stands in direct contradiction to the favorite explanation of why comets leave the Solar System where and when they do - escape velocity, which is slower when the comet escapes than when it apparently gets caught. This was a recently learned fact that mankind has yet to deal with. The atmosphere reduces man's ability to see details close to the Sun, as the Sun's rays scatter in the atmosphere, creating confusion. Likewise distance, when the comet is on the dark side of the Earth, cannot be measured accurately when the comet is pulling away. It is the drama when comet's go round the Sun, are spanning the sky when one is looking at them during the day, that one can measure speed. When one is measuring speed during the night, one is seeing the backside of a comet, and measurements of speed cannot be accurately determined. It is the recent ability of probes and the Hubble to get above the atmosphere that allows mankind a clearer picture. In particular, that time span when the comet is changing its brief orbit to a break-away. The comet slows before it breaks away, in direct contradiction to man's math.

Likewise perturbations by other planets do not explain why the comet leaves off where it does, and even such a well known comet as Haley's regularly leaves off from the same spot in spite of vastly different planetary alignments each time. Human astrophysics doesn't even attempt to address this, as it causes too much discomfort, apparently. The favorite tactic when faced with this contradiction is to carve up the comet's path into tiny slices, and focus just on the point where the comet leaves off, and then insert a magical and unnamed something that perturbs the comet so that it can escape.