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Article: <5igafi$25r@sjx-ixn11.ix.netcom.com>
From: saquo@ix.netcom.com(Nancy)
Subject: Re: Two TAILS Tell Two TALES - Hale-Bopp FRAUD
Date: 9 Apr 1997 14:52:34 GMT
In article: <5huq6r$13to$2@news.ccit.arizona.edu> Jim Scotti writes:
>> The single clue available to the populace is the ANGLE
>> OF THE TAIL which points directly away from the Sun.
>> As we have explained, drawing a simple diagram as
>> viewed from well above the Solar System and placing a
>> comet in this or that position relative to the Earth and Sun
>> will quickly show that the comet CANNOT be at the
>> distance claimed!
>> ZetaTalk[TM]
>
> The ion tail is pointing away from the sun just as expected
> given the comets orbit around the sun. The dust tail curves
> away, also in a predictable way given the orbit as we
> understand it.
> jscotti@LPL.Arizona.EDU (Jim Scotti)
(Begin ZetaTalk[TM])
We note you qualified your answer and avoided addressing the ANGLE OF THE TAIL! You have this very
real comet that the public is now looking at out close to the orbit of Mars! It is supposed to be beyond the
Sun, and at a distance at least as far away as the Earth itself is! Going into perihelion, the tiny tail exhibited
was explained away due to the public "looking down the tail", the tail supposedly POINTING AWAY from
the observer! Now we have a HORIZONTAL ion tail! An impossibility if the comet were truly where you
say it is! The horizontal tail, in fact, puts it BESIDE, NOT BEHIND the Sun.
(End ZetaTalk[TM])
I'll repost the discussion points, below.
.........
In article <19970322040715.sirius@essex1.com> Sirius writes:
> Could someone explain to me in laymans terms why the tail
> is vertical in the morning but horizontal in the evening.
> sirius@essex1.com (Sirius)
NOTE 1: The two tails form a 90 degree angle.
(Begin ZetaTalk[TM])
Hale-Bopp's small size, in comparison to Hyakutake last years, for
instance, is explained away by DISTANCE. It's supposed to be FAR AWAY.
But is it? If a man stands but 20 feet from you, and there is a light
behind you and a light at his right side, you will see a shadow behind
him and a shadow to his left, at a 90 degree angle. Put this same man
40 feet further out, and you will still see the shadow behind him, but
the shadow to the side will be at a sharper angle, closer to 45 degrees
than 90. Each incremental step back comes close to halving that angle,
until far enough out the shadows from both are indistinguishable.
(End ZetaTalk[TM])
In article <5gvuhg$efj@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com> Duane Sand writes:
> Earth's rotation causes the entire star field to shift by about
> 180 degrees during the night, and so the moon and planets
> and comet and sun shift by that amount also. If you imagine
> where the sun is below the horizon, you'll see that the faint
> long ion tail (perhaps not visible at your location) always
> points directly away from the sun. The brighter short dust tail
> is at a different fixed angle, related to the comet's orbital path.
> Duane Sand <d.sand@ix.netcom.com>
NOTE 2: The ion tail is pointing away from the Sun, horizontal as viewed from Earth at this time. The dust tail is trailing the orbit, vertical as viewed from Earth at this time.
(Begin ZetaTalk[TM])
The shift of the Earth from morning to evening does not put it into a different perspective, a different angle,
to the current comet being called Hale-Bopp. The Earth, Sun, and comet are ALL in the same place, but the
lens you are viewing the comet with has CHANGED from morning to evening, due to being baked by the
Sun during the day. In the morning, the air you are looking through is relatively cool, and thus you see the
dust tail without the turbulence caused by warm air in motion. You note THIS tail, as it is the more
dramatic, mentally screening out the other. In the evening, the light from the dust tail is scattered, but the
light from the icon tail, composed of different light particles due to its different nature, cuts through the air
turbulence more effectively. You now note THIS tail, as the only one you can easily see, mentally screening
out the other.
(End ZetaTalk[TM])
In article <33358AB3.66AD@navix.net> Davie Knisley writes:
> The ions are fairly light charged particles which interact fairly
> easily with the solar wind. They get carried back from the
> coma fairly quickly. The dust particles in the dust tail, while
> still fairly small, are much more massive than the ions (and
> are usually not charged). They take a while longer to be
> moved by both solar wind and radiation pressure, hence, they
> tend to trail a bit behind the comet in its orbit as they are
> pushed away from the sun. This causes the dust and ion tails
> to point in slightly different directions, as can now be seen
> with comet Hale-Bopp.
> "David W. Knisely" <dk84538@navix.net>
NOTE 3: The icon tail, horizontal as viewed from Earth, is always and instantaneously pointing away from the Sun due to its sensitivity to the Solar Wind.
(Begin ZetaTalk
The path of the comet currently being called Hale-Bopp is supposed to be OUTSIDE of Earth's orbit,
closer to the orbit of Mars or even beyond. Put yourself above the Solar System, looking down, directly
above the Sun so that the orbit of Mars, the orbit of Earth, the Sun, and the stated position of the comet
currently being called Hale-Bopp are within your imaginary sights. Since this comet is dropping, the dust
trail is not relevant to our point. IT IS THE ION TAIL THAT TELLS THE TALE. Draw a line from the
Sun through the point where the comet currently being called Hale-Bopp is supposed to be positioned.
Draw a line from Earth through this comet position. What angle should that tail pointing away from Earth
be? IS it at that angle?
(End ZetaTalk[TM])
In article <5h4poc$sr8@news.fsu.edu> Joseph Cain writes:
> If the ion stream from a comet is observed to be anti-solar,
> and the garden hose direction of the albeit weak heliomagnetic
> field is at a high angle to a line drawn from the Sun, then
> why do the ion tails not follow along it instead? Does a comet
> cut a mini-magnetosphere about it so the ion tail goes along
> its tail away from the Sun? Alternately, is the interplanetary
> field so weak that the ions ignore it?
> cain@geomag.gly.fsu.edu (Joseph Cain)
NOTE : 4 The ion tail does NOT appear to be on a proper angle for the comet placement as given by NASA and JPL et al.
(Begin ZetaTalk[TM])
Here's the rub! Is this a big comet far away or a SMALL COMET MUCH CLOSER! Take the drawing
done in the exercise above. Move the comet around, closer to Earth, until the angle you SEE for the ion tail
is appropriate for BOTH the Sun's angle and the angle from Earth. Less dramatic than Hyakutake? Smaller
beyond reason from what was being touted in 1995? Has a different orbit, suddenly, from the 4.200 year
cycle Jim Scotti was just defending not a month ago to one now stated to be 2,380 years? Why?
In order to connect the dots from the nova in 1995 to the comet the Hubble and NEAT programs had spied
(they see them dark and moving, where amateurs spot them lighted up and moving), the orbit had to be
reasonable to make the stretch. This was the paper orbit published during 1995 and 1996. However, this
comet currently being called Hale-Bopp was not so convenient as to have the same orbit! Thus the dramatic
changes just of late.
(End ZetaTalk[TM])